Friday, May 18, 2012

Some "skeptics" think Zimmerman's injuries were faked or self-inflicted

I'm not going to name names, and I'm not going to go into detail (I have a lot of work to do right now). But I have to comment on this... Over at FtB, I've seen a couple of commenters and at least one of the bloggers implying or even outright stating that the minor injuries George Zimmerman is reported to have had after the fatal encounter with Trayvon Martin were self-inflicted or faked, or even fabricated. The idea being that he thought this would let him get away with his devious plan to murder a black kid.

Come on, people. Is it possible that happened? Well, sure, and that sort of thing is not unheard of. But it's a pretty dramatic accusation, and a pretty spectacular explanation, especially when there is a much more mundane explanation ready at hand.

We know with 100% certainty -- from the 911 tapes -- that Zimmerman had been following Trayvon for several minutes and was extremely agitated by the time he got out of his vehicle. If we accept that the major elements of "Dee-Dee's" story are more or less true, we also know that Trayvon was (justifiably!) pretty worked up as well. For instance, "Dee-Dee" urged him to walk faster to try and get away, but he defiantly chose not to alter his pace. We also believe that at some point, Zimmerman got out of his SUV and approached Trayvon. Again if we accept "Dee-Dee's" story, it seems that the events at that point degenerated pretty rapidly, with the phone connection being cut off almost immediately after Zimmerman's approach, possibly as a result of Trayvon being shoved.

You know what could happen next in that kind of situation that would be totally unsurprising? A fistfight. Either one could have thrown the first punch, or neither of them might really have done it. Both were pretty much at maximum fight-or-flight response at that point, and based on their phone conversations we have reason to believe both of them had already made a conscious decision against "flight". Is it so shocking that they would have come to blows? Why on earth would someone be so skeptical of this narrative that they had to invent some weird conspiracy about self-inflicted wounds???

Is it some sort of need to make sure that Zimmerman is maximally to blame? If so, it's entirely unnecessary. If you stalk a kid ten years younger than you, aggressively walk up to him, get in a fistfight, and then shoot his ass, that's a serious crime, at least any place with sane gun laws. Hell, even if Trayvon unambiguously threw the first punch, you can't provoke someone into punching you and then cap them in the chest. Yeesh!

Or is it some sort of impulse to make Trayvon into some kind of saint? Well, once again, this is grossly unnecessary. Teenagers, um, occasionally get into fistfights. I know I sure did. And in this case, it seems Trayvon was pretty justified in feeling threatened! And like I say, even if there was a fistfight, that doesn't at all imply who threw the first punch. It's entirely plausible that Zimmerman walked up and tried to tackle Trayvon, then started losing when Trayvon fought back, and cowardly pulled out his gun. There, see, you still get to picture Trayvon as some sort of immaculate never-broke-a-single-rule hero, but you don't have to ludicrously deny that the evidence points strongly towards there having been a physical confrontation.

This conspiracy mongering about self-inflicted wounds is useless and annoying. Unless evidence comes to light that actually suggests that really happened, people should stop yammering about that hypothesis. It's paranoid, it's absurd, and it's distinctly unskeptical.

Addendum: A couple other thoughts on this... Zimmerman has not exactly come across as a criminal mastermind here. This is a guy who used to call 911 if he saw an open window or open garage door, and his website was, uh... well I don't know how to describe it. It's much easier for me to believe that Zimmerman is just a regular idiot with a gun and a hero complex, rather than some kind of devious sadist who formulated a clever plan to murder a kid in the streets and get away with it.

Also, some noise has been made about the fact that Zimmerman was on top of Trayvon when the shot was fired, and so therefore how could Trayvon have busted his nose? All I can say is, I guess people who say that have never been in a fistfight before. As I mentioned, I was in a couple of 'em as a kid. One of them actually dragged on for awhile, because it wasn't in school so there was nobody to break it up. Sometimes I managed to pin him down, sometimes he managed to do it to me. We both had bloody noses by the end. Actually, I think I bloodied his nose with a lucky punch when he was on top of me (though this was like almost two decades ago, so I don't really remember).

It's entirely plausible that Trayvon was mostly winning, then for a moment Zimmerman managed to get the upper hand, and he seized that opportunity to pull out his gun. I'm not at all saying that is what happened; it is just one of many possible scenarios that is consistent with the evidence. But it (and a lot of other similarly mundane explanations) are a lot more plausible than this self-inflicted wound crap.


  1. Let me annoy you some more. Look at the picture that first came out from the friends iphone. Look at the picture that Zimm claims was taken the day after. Much more blood on the first. If he showered then why any blood on the next day picture. And....why on the next day picture is he wearing the same clothes from the day of the shooting looking extremely clean and neat, not at all like some one rolling around in soggy wet grass the day before. Last but not least, did not the police claim his clothes were taken as evidence, if so why is he wearing them in the next day picture? I know, this is "nitpicking" and annoying. However, paying attention to details is important. With that I will say, I do not think Zimmerman shot Martin at all.

  2. no self infliction is highly likely.

    2 wittneses right after the gun shout ran outside and saw zimmerman on top of treyvon martin and Mr. martin was face down. then they yelled to zimmmerman 3 what is going on here. zimmerman then yelled called the police and threw his hands up behind his heads and as the witnesses say it exactly to describe that ''i did something bad''

  3. Second anonymous: I don't find any of that to be inconsistent with the narrative I proposed earlier, where Zimmerman starts losing the fight, and in a moment when he seizes the advantage he pulls out a gun and shoots Martin. In fact, the "I did something bad" comment makes a hell of a lot of sense in that context: If he shot Martin in cold blood, then that comment is puzzling; but if he shot Martin in a burst of adrenaline during a fistfight, and immediately thought, "Oh shit, whoops", then that comment makes perfect sense. To reiterate, these narratives I am presenting are highly speculative, but my point is simply that there is a totally mundane story to explain all of that evidence, without resorting to fantastical stories.

    Anonymous #1: I am not sure which is the second photo you are referring to. I looked at the iPhone photo, and if that is legitimate then, well, I don't see how anybody could deny that he was in some kind of fight! In addition, later photos I have looked at seem to show wounds in the same places. I guess I am just not seeing the same thing you are. If you want to link to the images you are referring to, I will take another look.... but it just seems overwhelmingly clear to me that the fistfight explanation is far simpler than any bizarre alternatives involving self-inflicted wounds.

  4. Zimmerman did nothing wrong at all. Tray-Tray ran away, and doubled back to confront Z from behind and to the left of Z. Dee Dee confirms that Martin confronted Z. That Z's injuries were minor (to me and you, because they didn't happen to us) if immaterial. He was justified in using deadly force to PREVENT great bodily injury. He was under no obligation to SUFFER great bodily injury first. I'm glad No_Limit_Punkass is dead.

    1. Zimmerman was wrong and his wounds were self inflicted. How could that 17 yr old cause those bloody bruises? Zimmerman
      had no right to follow Trayvon like that in the dark. It was very dark that night. Trayvon acted in self defense I'm sure and he did the right thing. That still did'nt give Zimmerman the right to shoot that young man. Anonymous, what if that was you or your child or loved one really???

    2. I agree that Zimmerman provoked the fight by following Trayvon, and at MINIMUM this ought to be manslaughter, at least in any state with reasonable laws about such things.

      But I stand by my assertion that the simplest explanation is that Zimmerman's wounds were indeed inflicted during a fistfight with Trayvon Martin. I simply cannot understand the incredulity people have about it. Yes, Virginia, a wiry 17-year-old athlete is entirely capable of beating the living fuck out of a pudgy 30-year-old man. What is so hard to believe about that??

      Oh, on a side note, I have to call out the first Anon's obviously racist use of "Tray-Tray". But you know, go ahead, show us that Zimmerman's defenders are largely a bunch of bigots. It can only help!

  5. Nobody really knw what hppn,everybody thnk they,we dnt knw jack sht!but i knw this,zimmerman could Have told trayvon who he was,while was following him,something like this,hey ,im the neighborhood watchman, do u live around here,trayvon could have answer yes or no,u dnt follow someone n expect a person not to get paranoid, if a person follows me of course u want to knw why this person is following me,is he a serial killer,kidnappers, gangbangers,robbery,u thnk everything, especially in da dark,come people,yall cant be that stupid,to thnk trayvon didnt have a right to defend his self,im sure Zimmerman didnt say he was the neighborhood watchman, i would be ready to defend myself n any person would,anybody with common sense,can c that Zimmerman story is made up,only some white people are naive, because they are just natural hater anyway, its just n there DNA,to be that way,nothing good about thm,look at history,they are the troublemakers of this world,n u wonder y this country n world is fkd up,they have no love in thm they r descendants of Satan!they have no love for themselves,so u no they will have no respect or love for anyone else,that y bad things always hppn to thm,columbine,Denver, tucson, Connecticut shooting n 911,n i feel the same way they do,i show no sorrow or feeling for they NO GOOD,dirty ,hateful,for the person that said im glad he's dead,ur a coward,u hate ur ugly white self,but anyway to my middle east bro's do wht u do these white peoples in terror, u say boo,they change the whole country.

  6. Trayvon wasnt doin anything,u can talk abt his past or traces of marijuana in his system white america,all yall think tht blks r nothing but thugs,n reality history prove that it the white race that rape n pillage the planet,but that's what im here to discuss ur dirty history of a no good race,it raining trayvon trying to cover head,with his hoodie on his head,zimmerman that look suspicious to him,white people suppose to so superior n ur dumb at the same time,but them stereotypes prove u not superior, but a foolish fool,zimmerman thought trayvon was a thug,because of the hoodie,which made trayvon look suspicious to him,so he had to call 911,to have a reason to follow trayvon,so he felt it was his duty to follow trayvon,after the dispatcher said not to follow him,because his excuse he had to use was he looking suspicious, to follow him,i dnt think trayvon ever approach Zimmerman if he was trying to getaway, i believe there was never a struggle,zimmerman knew the stand ur ground law,he knw after he shot trayvon for whtevr reason,he had to cover his self,without injury theres no stand ur ground for zimmerman,ths is my belief what hppn,he took the gun which ever end of the gun and hit himself,look at the two scratches on his head in the zimmerman pic's,not consistent with slamming someone head on concrete, no knots,lumps,no concussion,i would have wantd to go to the hospital, i would been scare to go to sleep that night,to much head trauma, I'm thinkn i wouldnt wake up the morning,im going to the hospital,two scratches,no scratches or whips marks on his arms ,back,thighs,legs,hands,nothing,only whites would believe its,because he wasnt white,u people r unbelievable, the most insensitive, people on the planet,but when sht hppn to yall sorry ass,u want the world to share ur grief,fuk yall,u deserve what coming to ur uncaring ass,the things i have read is unbelievable, one day it could be ur family member, brother, sister,mom,dad,thats dead frm something unexpected tragedy, ur goin to get the same negative respond for thm,judge not n u want be judge,u get judge the same way u judge other people,white people,stop the hate,caus in the end u goin to lose

  7. Trayvon have the right to walk anywhere he wants to this world dnt belongs to white people,trayvon wasnt do anything,but being followed by a half white n Hispanics racist who wanted to be white n act like a racist white cop,calling Trayvon a suspect,what did he do,what crime did he comit to be a suspect, frm suspicious to suspect, his crime black while walking through a major white neighborhood,made him a suspect? u look at trayvon he might have smoked marijuana or being around people that smoke it for it to get in his system, we dont knw,mayb he got suspended frm school hes a young kid,that's what kids do ,but i will bet u this trayvon wasn't knw thug yall, i knw look can be deceiving,but if u look at the pic's trayvon is on almst every pic's hes on the kid is smiling man,he happy looking, his father not goin to allow that,u can tell he frm a family that cares about him,that kid,just being a kid,a thug never,a thug dnt have shit to smile about,caus if trayvon was a real thug,a real thug,zimmerman would have stayed his cowardly ass in his car n waited for the serve n protect white only cops to come,but he had a gun which made him a bad ass n power,went n started that shit n shot that kid,but yall want to blame the victim he if he did fight back,he have a right to have the stand ur ground too,zimmerman is following him thn he have a gun,n have the nerves to tell the world that him screaming for his life,his head being slam to the concrete or trayvon covering his mouth n nose,which one?at point did they make to the grass from the concrete to where Trayvon was laying?what Trayvon doin to make him get out his car to approach Trayvon? Y Zimmerman didnt identify himself he was the neighborhood watchman, whn he said Trayvon walk around his car,u goin to die tonight is the best shit he could come up with to defend his self,i bet that what Zimmerman said to Trayvon, that y u here Trayvon scream help,cause zimmerman had pulled his gun on Trayvon, thats he said Trayvon tried to grab his gun,Trayvon was trying to stop Zimmerman frm shooting him ,they struggle a little then zimmerman shot him in the chest,caus if i have a gun ,u never goin to get close to if i feel im about to be attack,my gun will be the first thing u c ,Zimmerman is lyi.g just like majority of white America, my Hispanics bro's got much love for yall p.ricans,cubans,dmicans much love,ths Zimmerman just wantd to be white,it could have been one of yall ,if walking through his neighborhood the didnt care,his family probly hate Hispanics too.thats what white people do is pre judge everyone, but themselves.

  8. Any body can c that have sense,that Zimmerman is lyinghe had to cover his track,lke the real police do when take shoot an unarmed black man,u here the same story to justify, he lookd suspicious, he was on drugs or something, i thought he was reaching for something, u can even have video evidence, witnesses and the serve and to protect white people only will get away with it,well people of color r u tired of u s racist america getting away with shit all the fuckn time n when u defend urself ur guilty n when u dont u end up dead an ur predator walk away n go back to his family ,while on the other hand another black man is in the cemetery,his family left to mourn his death, while the predator is celebrating with his family,the time is now people of color,a life for a life,we have to defend ourselves, caus America don't care,gangbangers to what u have to do,white America, dnt care about u,collateral damage so be,time to defend, serve n protect ourselves, stop gttn knock down n dont get back up, do whatever necessary to defend ur n urslf n ur family n friends,i would rather die tryn ,than die doin nothing,defend urself !

  9. No Zimmerman DNA on Trayvon's hands. No bruises or contusions on TM's dominant hand; the right hand. You say you have been in a fight? How do you land "20-25" punches and not bruise your dominant hand. There was no "ground and pound" and little, if any, scuffle. Zimmerman clearly made the entire story

  10. I believe his injuries are faked. They most definitely look too superficial. I believe the white people did everything possible to make sure Zimmerman got away with it.